cost and benefit - SQL,VBA

[graveyard]

hi people, i have a nagging question that ive been constanly asking myself. Now i am turning this question to you experts here for some 3rd party advices/opinions

i am in the midst of going through literature on sql, vba (know nuts abt these) and as i go through, for example sql, i note that what most of the codes and statements achieve can be accomplished in the GUI version, by icons manipulation. i know the icons activate the codes in the background to execute commands and no doubt understanding and knowledge of the codes will be useful but the question is how much more useful? is the benefit of learning sql, vba greater than the cost of acquiring that kind of knowledge and expertise?

i am not too sure abt the general demographic of the members in this forum - whether most are programmers, excel apps developers etc .. but i am a financial analyst who works with ms access and excel (mostly excel). access is used only to store years worth of data and report extraction. wldnt claim to be an expert but i am rather familiar with excel, access GUI .. as in for example, slicing and dicing data with excel formulas and using query design views in access to manipulate data.

ive posted a few mails here regarding vba,sql issues that i tried to build into my files and i am very grateful to the feedback and assistance i got that helped me to fix the issue and move on my work. but i dont really want to just come here and post what i dont understand, get something in return which i still dont understand but work anyway. but then the burning question is how much do i really need this knowledge .. there is also a concern that future technologies may make apps more "user friendly" and emphasis on GUI with more codes and commands already built into the appls ..for example, MS excel 2007 has a feature called "remove duplicates" and it does as the name implies .. which is a function i used to do manually on an excel 2003 spreadsheet or on a "no duplicate" query on access. So future versions may eliminate the need to know vba, sql and could allow user to just execute functions (with click of buttons)that are currently possible only by user self man vba, sql codes.

in other words, i am grappling with the "you-dont-have-to-know-how-a-TV-works-to-enjoy-it" paradox, if i may use this

sorry if this question seems naive and "noobish" but obviously i do not know enough of sql, vba and the depth of their content to make an accurate assessment of their potential and how much can be accomplished with them, except that i think sql is for data manipulation / extraction while vba is for automation with some sql content (i guess this statement shows my lack of knowledge?? )

anyway appreciate some feedback as i am on a crossroad, having a couple of things like work, studies on the plate so gotta channel resources (in this case, time) to the most productive areas.. and so need some sort of "light at the end of the tunnel" to guide me ..

Thanks people!!!

 

[tweedle]

Hi person;

i know the icons activate the codes in the background to execute commands and no doubt understanding and knowledge of the codes will be useful but the question is how much more useful?

The answer, I believe, lies largely in the application of that knowledge.
You can either spend your hour in the morning opening workbooks and refreshing data; or you can use scheduling and automation (possibly with VBA, but not necessarily required) to accomplish those tasks so the information is ready for digestion and you can apply your true expertise to the information presented.
Programming is really about providing consistent, repeatable processes, and or elimination of the mundane tasks that don't interest or require human attention, and I suppose one should include exposure to the masses when talking about web-enabled.

is the benefit of learning sql, vba greater than the cost of acquiring that kind of knowledge and expertise?

Benefit/Cost is highly subjective; based on no-less-than region, expertise required, tangible, intangible, absolute and estimated aspects, not to mention opinion. Cost, at its best, is a S.W.A.G.
If you're running a lot of repetative analysis and calculation of ratios, applying automation to that would certainly have benefit [consistent process + you get an hour to do something else].
If you're building a lot of one-off ad-hoc; then automation doesn't necessarily bring any huge advangage.

but i dont really want to just come here and post what i dont understand, get something in return which i still dont understand but work anyway. but then the burning question is how much do i really need this knowledge

To that I would ask, "What do you want then?"
If you get a solution that you don't understand and you don't want to live in ignorance, then post-back and ask for an explanation, or put the solution in place, highlight a key word and hit F1.
There are some EXTREMELY smart people here.

i am grappling with the "you-dont-have-to-know-how-a-TV-works-to-enjoy-it" paradox

But you don't want to have to call a repair man to change the channel either.

but obviously i do not know enough of sql, vba and the depth of their content to make an accurate assessment of their potential and how much can be accomplished with them

Well, VBA has enough power to be forbidden in some places I have been [largely US financial sector] because it's considered a security risk [it can be made extremely powerful]. SQL, with an update statement (regardless of the interface used to create it) can be equally as damaging from a corporate data-security perspective. Many of the locals I have worked have extremely tight DBA controls on primary data sources for exactly these reasons. One errant experimental SQL statement taking out a production table is largely frowned upon.
In the end, the combination of VBA, SQL and appropriate data-rights can be catastrophic [or extremely efficient].
But that's why most of those scenarios (in a corporate environment) are controlled via multiple tiers of Analysts, DBAs, Programmers and access-rights; so no one entity can cause catastrophic damage.
------------------------------------------------------
It's my take that few actually make a living exclusively with VBA. From other threads here [Check the lounge for similar conversations], most use it as an accessory to their primary job duties. I know I use it for Business Analysis to model UIs before presenting specs to technical, Data Analysis for applying definition to flat files and generally parsing data. I also use vba+sql to pull data defs out of core systems; and to tie the two together for gap-discovery in the Systems Analysis portion.
(And then there are days when I just want it to randomly color the cells of my workbook.)

 

[Fazza]

Good comments, guys.

Maybe consider where you see yourself fitting in to the bigger picture. Many forum posters I think are doing the nitty gritty work; as opposed to say managers who are happy to have others to that detail. As a manager/user of the data, one doesn't need to know all the details of what is done. If you're looking like becoming a higher level user of the data, your current knowledge of detail might be adequate.

The fact that you've asked the question suggests to me you're not super interested in learning the nitty gritty. Whereas I love learning the details and over recent years and learnt much in Excel, VBA, SQL, ADO, etc. I enjoy learning that sort of stuff and there is always more to learn. I am fortunate to apply this extensively in my work.

regards

 

[Norie]

There's a lot that can't be accomplished using the GUI, or that takes way to long using the GUI.

 

[tusharm]

Good observations and questions.

My philosophy has been to learn enough to complete the task at hand. It means I've learned a lot about a lot of different disciplines including software development. Within that discipline, I know about methodologies, managing projects, and programming. In the realm of programming my knowledge extends to a range of languages including COBOL (well, a long time ago), VB(A), the .Net languages, ASP, JavaScript, and SQL. In many areas I know enough to get by, in others I know quite a bit, in a few most would rank me as an "expert."

When does the cost of learning exceed the benefit? Never. I learn something new when it is required. So, the marginal cost of the new information I acquire is always less than the benefit of getting the task done.

Of course, sometimes, the best way to get something done is to get someone else to help you out. {grin}

hi people, i have a nagging question that ive been constanly asking myself. Now i am turning this question to you experts here for some 3rd party advices/opinions

i am in the midst of going through literature on sql, vba (know nuts abt these) and as i go through, for example sql, i note that what most of the codes and statements achieve can be accomplished in the GUI version, by icons manipulation. i know the icons activate the codes in the background to execute commands and no doubt understanding and knowledge of the codes will be useful but the question is how much more useful? is the benefit of learning sql, vba greater than the cost of acquiring that kind of knowledge and expertise?

i am not too sure abt the general demographic of the members in this forum - whether most are programmers, excel apps developers etc .. but i am a financial analyst who works with ms access and excel (mostly excel). access is used only to store years worth of data and report extraction. wldnt claim to be an expert but i am rather familiar with excel, access GUI .. as in for example, slicing and dicing data with excel formulas and using query design views in access to manipulate data.

ive posted a few mails here regarding vba,sql issues that i tried to build into my files and i am very grateful to the feedback and assistance i got that helped me to fix the issue and move on my work. but i dont really want to just come here and post what i dont understand, get something in return which i still dont understand but work anyway. but then the burning question is how much do i really need this knowledge .. there is also a concern that future technologies may make apps more "user friendly" and emphasis on GUI with more codes and commands already built into the appls ..for example, MS excel 2007 has a feature called "remove duplicates" and it does as the name implies .. which is a function i used to do manually on an excel 2003 spreadsheet or on a "no duplicate" query on access. So future versions may eliminate the need to know vba, sql and could allow user to just execute functions (with click of buttons)that are currently possible only by user self man vba, sql codes.

in other words, i am grappling with the "you-dont-have-to-know-how-a-TV-works-to-enjoy-it" paradox, if i may use this

sorry if this question seems naive and "noobish" but obviously i do not know enough of sql, vba and the depth of their content to make an accurate assessment of their potential and how much can be accomplished with them, except that i think sql is for data manipulation / extraction while vba is for automation with some sql content (i guess this statement shows my lack of knowledge?? )

anyway appreciate some feedback as i am on a crossroad, having a couple of things like work, studies on the plate so gotta channel resources (in this case, time) to the most productive areas.. and so need some sort of "light at the end of the tunnel" to guide me ..

Thanks people!!!