Need some advice, from people who work in this sector/contractor. (Database design/programming)

[Bammbulance]

Hello,

Ive just spent 8 hours tweaking and making a lovely macro that for 7/8 hours I didnt think was possible :D heres the background to my issue...

{ Background / Me rambling (Scroll down for just the question hehe!) }

I work in a glass factory, far from having anything computer based, im one of two guys out of 300 who can use computers on our level (I'm not employed for my computer skills), my job is 50% technical (Computer monitoring filling out log's hourly of Furnace temperatures) 50% digging piles of sand, so im hardly employed as a database designer.

Basically 2 years ago computer logs were introduced (replacing paper logs), we were supplied some terrible non-user friendly sheets so i whiped out my skill and designed a 'Log Sheet for Dummies' (All the hard parts are done by the click of a button/macro), so user friendly and quite sexy looking, I didnt get thanked by management, infact the boss said it anoyed him cos he spent 2 weeks making our original (Took me 4 days for 'version' 1.0 hehe), and it almost made me cry looking at his ****-poor spreadsheet, it would you too. I use Excel by the way, its what I learn't at college 10 years ago.

They have since asked me to make multiple sheets for them, ranging from simple 1 hour jobs to some which have taken me about 20 hours of programming and tweaking. One even got sent to holland, as they liked it so much (Im in england), still I get paid my basic wages with no bonus of thanks for doing 20 hours of frustrating work of my own back.

Im on a new one and have had enough, I have just told my managers that if they want me to make them anymore sheets they can pay me for it.
I used nice terms such as, im cheaper and better at making user friendly ones, noted they once said they could get someone else to do sheets if i didnt, told them when I first made the sheet it was a hobby, now its more like a job.

So ive got my **** covered, they can only tell me to stop doing the sheets or pay me, as computer work is in no way part of my contract.

I hope they pay me as I really enjoy making my sheets, in my case its an art form, im still ever learning code for formuli and discovering new macro's (Its amazing what you can achieve with a well placed 'Find and replace all' macro )


{Question / Less rambling}

How much generally would you charge for an hours work?
5 Hours work?

This sheet im working on, I think is going to be in the 20 hour range.

I do not wish to charge the fee a professional would charge, but im good with numbers if i have a standard to work with, then I can reduce it respectively and calculate it into how many hours overtime they would have to pay me.
I dont want to undercharge, or overcharge, Im thinking of telling them 20 hours overtime, they will be about 300 quid.

{Though of the day}

I spent 8 hours making that code for a macro, in the end, it all comes down to a button which to the user changes 30 cell values.

I want to live in a world where I can show them the code I wrote, wish they could understand it, and appriciate how much time it must have taken.

But no, all they do is 'click'

 

[Bammbulance]

p.s. Im doing this for the appreciation more than the money, but as managers tend to be terrible at thanking people for going out their way, thanks in payment will do. Ive prob done 100 hours of spreadsheet work for them volentarily.

 

[Joe4]

You didn't say where you live, or all the details of when/where you wrote this stuff.

Here is the States (and probably in most other places), anything that you create on "company time" or using "company resources" is considered property of the company. So you would not be able to charge for that. If you wish to be paid for something on a "consultant" type basis, it would have to be down on your own time and using your own resources, unless you already had an existing agreements with them in which they agreed to pay you for this work and allowed you to use their resources.

That being said, if you used their time/resources, but it isn't in your job description, you could refuse to do anything further on the project unless they agree to change your job description and increase your compensation accordingly, as it falls outside of your job duties. Of course, they could play hardball and let you go, too.

At my last job, we were involved in a large system conversion. A few of us got put on the conversion team at our current salaries. They also brought in a few consultants to help out at a much higher rate of pay. After the project was finished, and the consultants left, and we were left behind to run things, we always joked that we should resign and offer our services back as consultants at 3 times the pay (the two of us left were the only ones who knew how everything worked). Never had the guts to try it though!

 

[Smitty]

Before you go in guns a blazin' for a raise or recognition, I'd make sure you have plenty of ammunition. You can tell your boss how great you are and how long it took you, but without results he'd tell you to pound sand. It's pretty easy for a non-technical managerial type to jump to the conclusion that you were ****ing around on company time rather than actually investing that much time productively. (I.E. it really only took 4 hours and he just slagged off fokr 4 to keep from shoveling sand...) Believe me the most whiz bang application (and the time you put into it) doesn't mean anything to the layman - it either works or it doesn't.

So put your facts together: 1) before this new process x procedure took x man hours and resulted in x statistic/production factor. 2) with the new process in place the same process now takes x man hours, resulting in x s/p or an x% gain in productivity, which equates to $xx annual savings, etc.

Once you have the facts you have proof of your efforts (which you should also document personally to CYA and for good resume material). It's up to you how you present it at that point. That's how I managed to get a lot of raises over the years. Create a better mouse trap and no one gives a ****, show them how many dead mice add to the bottom line and people start to pay attention.

 

[Bammbulance]

Hello, I live in England, in Essex.

Thankyou both for the replys, Previous sheets I designed I did in work hours, so I fully understand that I cant charge for that. But I have already decided I would reply to that line they may take with "Im doing this one at home, as I have no internet access at work and the sheet is too complicated for me to create without external/additional information".

Im basically doing what you said, its not in my job description, so im simply refusing to do that for them anymore, but if they pay me in some way....

I have been thinking about this, thankyou very much for a good calculation to work it out, but so I wont push them too far I think perhaps ill ask them to get me a license for Office 2010 :D I think its a good deal and they could probably get it cheaper as they are a worldwide company.

Its a shame I have to go this far, I enjoy making sheets, and when im doing shift work my job is to do monitoring work, so breakdowns permitting I can use a computer to make a sheet for 6 hours or so. (On afternoon and night shifts im on my own for 8 hours)

I dont want to stop, but ive put alot of time and frustration into these sheets, tweaked sheets and organised file systems, all out of my job discription, and the spreadsheet that also went to holland (the manager I made it for probably put his name on it), not been thanked for any of it!

I understand why you never got the guts to do it! The fear of loosing your job over something like that, trying to get more money but probably loosing it all, its not great, luckily we have a factory union, so im not worried about fighting to not use an external skill...

If I loose, i also have a degree in tree studies / tree surgery... so ill also be doing all the gardening too! :D

 

[Bammbulance]

Oh sorry I see now the use of showing the benefits, but the problem is finding out how much someone in england would charge so I can outweigh the benefits.

 

[Joe4]

Yes, it does stink working for unappreciative bosses. I have had a few of those myself! If you really enjoy doing that kind of work, it may make sense to see if you can find a different job that better suits your strengths and interests.

We wish you the best of luck. Let us know how it all works out!

 

[Smitty]

Oh sorry I see now the use of showing the benefits, but the problem is finding out how much someone in england would charge so I can outweigh the benefits.

I can't say for the UK, but here I wouldn't look at a consulting wage falling below $50/Hr. or £33. For higher end development (databases, advanced Excel, etc.) you can see that go well over $100/hr (£ 66). Note that a lot of that is experience based, so I'd be looking on the low end to start.

You might want to see if one of the UK MVP's will take a look at what you've got and give you an honest assessment as to what it would take for a hypothetical developer to build. Although I don't know how many will take too kindly to my suggestion.

 

[Bammbulance]

Well first day back at work after the text was sent and it was not mentioned by either manager, subject completly avoided... I did hear on the grapevine they wern't happy about the text, but im yet to be worried



This whole subject brings regrets, I studied advanced I.C.T. at college, but gave up after passing as I was young and didnt want to sit in an office.

Sadly that was.... 10 years ago (8 years since finishing), so most if not all of my skills are outdated and forgotten, the only skill ive truley retained is the functionality/asthetic design of sheets... I still have to sit there for 3-4 hours on end making up code and macros that I hope will work, not truley knowing what im doing! (Most dont work after 1 hour, but 3 hours later tweaking and re-writing and I generally get it, or ask on here)

Although 50% of my job is digging piles of sand im still earning 10k more than a junior designer would, so that big a drop in wages at this stage of my life is way too much! 2 Qualifications, and using either would be a wage drop

 

[SydneyGeek]

Yeah, frustrating.
When I switched to consulting I had a very lean first year. Second year I made what I had been on in my last job, and every year since then has been better than that.
I wouldn't go back, but you have to suck up the courage to make the jump.

Denis