XIRR not working in 2010

[loweyecue]

I have a spreadhseet where I track investments and I make heavy use of XIRR. Fior some reason for one particular set of values it is returning a 0% result. The cashflows add up to $600+ in investnments and the current value is around $450, so the investment has lost $150 in 8 months yet it shows a 0% rate of return.

<TABLE style="WIDTH: 122pt; BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse" border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=162><COLGROUP><COL style="WIDTH: 57pt; mso-width-source: userset; mso-width-alt: 2702" width=76><COL style="WIDTH: 65pt; mso-width-source: userset; mso-width-alt: 3072" width=86><TBODY><TR style="HEIGHT: 14.4pt" height=19><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 57pt; HEIGHT: 14.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl64 height=19 width=76 align=right>12/30/2010</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 65pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" width=86 align=right>34.99</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 14.4pt" height=19><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 14.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl64 height=19 align=right>1/5/2011</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" align=right>-0.27</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 14.4pt" height=19><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 14.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl64 height=19 align=right>1/13/2011</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" align=right>34.99</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 14.4pt" height=19><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 14.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl64 height=19 align=right>1/28/2011</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" align=right>34.99</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 14.4pt" height=19><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 14.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl64 height=19 align=right>1/31/2011</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" align=right>34.99</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 14.4pt" height=19><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 14.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl64 height=19 align=right>2/14/2011</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" align=right>34.99</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 14.4pt" height=19><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 14.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl64 height=19 align=right>2/25/2011</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" align=right>40.08</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 14.4pt" height=19><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 14.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl64 height=19 align=right>3/14/2011</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" align=right>34.99</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 14.4pt" height=19><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 14.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl64 height=19 align=right>3/30/2011</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" align=right>34.99</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 14.4pt" height=19><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 14.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl64 height=19 align=right>4/15/2011</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" align=right>34.99</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 14.4pt" height=19><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 14.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl64 height=19 align=right>4/28/2011</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" align=right>34.99</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 14.4pt" height=19><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 14.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl64 height=19 align=right>5/12/2011</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" align=right>34.99</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 14.4pt" height=19><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 14.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl64 height=19 align=right>5/27/2011</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" align=right>34.99</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 14.4pt" height=19><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 14.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl64 height=19 align=right>6/14/2011</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" align=right>34.99</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 14.4pt" height=19><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 14.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl64 height=19 align=right>6/28/2011</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" align=right>34.99</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 14.4pt" height=19><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 14.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl64 height=19 align=right>7/14/2011</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" align=right>34.99</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 14.4pt" height=19><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 14.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl64 height=19 align=right>7/28/2011</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" align=right>34.99</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 14.4pt" height=19><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 14.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl64 height=19 align=right>8/12/2011</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" align=right>34.99</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 14.4pt" height=19><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 14.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl64 height=19 align=right>8/30/2011</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" align=right>34.99</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 14.4pt" height=19><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 14.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl64 height=19 align=right>9/4/2011</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" align=right>-479.67</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 14.4pt" height=19><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 14.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" height=19></TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0"></TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 14.4pt" height=19><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 14.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" height=19></TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl65 align=right>0%</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

This is my data set, I am not using a "guess" in the formula.

Any help would be much appreciated

 

[Richard Schollar]

I confirm that happens in xl2002 too. I worked out the IRR at c. -55% and input that as a guess in the XIRR calculation and it returned the value -0.55165 so I can only presume that it is failing to find an IRR after the 100 iterations it performs but for some reason is returning 0% rather than the #NUM the help file indicates. No idea why this might be the case though.

 

[loweyecue]

I confirm that happens in xl2002 too. I worked out the IRR at c. -55% and input that as a guess in the XIRR calculation and it returned the value -0.55165 so I can only presume that it is failing to find an IRR after the 100 iterations it performs but for some reason is returning 0% rather than the #NUM the help file indicates. No idea why this might be the case though.

Actualy it returns a very small number like 0.00000235% in an exponential format. I think you are right about the iterations, but I have other invetsments in the same data range same frequency of buys/sells and fees etc, that are calculated correctly.

 

[Richard Schollar]

It may be an error in the programming behind the function: I tested a few changes to many of the numbers which had no impact whatsoever on the calculated result (so it looks almost like a default value). A pita to be sure though.

 

[loweyecue]

It may be an error in the programming behind the function: I tested a few changes to many of the numbers which had no impact whatsoever on the calculated result (so it looks almost like a default value). A pita to be sure though.

PITA indeed. I have graphs and a full dashboard based on these values and now everything is ruined because this one value won't compute, all the other positions using exact smae formula are computing correctly.

 

[brettdj]

It is abnormal though to see a long positive set of cashflows (ignoring the second cashflow) followed by what looks to be a repayment.

A NPV data table test at different discount rates "proves" there is no solution. At a 0% discount rate the NPV is approx 190. The NPV then rises at higher discount rates (5%, 10%, 15% etc) as the final negative payment is "penalised" more than the earlier sequence of positive payments by discounting. The Net Present value peaks at a 457% discount rate, at which point it declines very slowly

So while I agree that the value should be NUM rather than 2.98E-9 I wonder whether your problem could be expressed another way?

Cheers

Dave

 

[Richard Schollar]

It is abnormal though to see a long positive set of cashflows (ignoring the second cashflow) followed by what looks to be a repayment.

A NPV data table test at different discount rates "proves" there is no solution. At a 0% discount rate the NPV is approx 190. The NPV then rises at higher discount rates (5%, 10%, 15% etc) as the final negative payment is "penalised" more than the earlier sequence of positive payments by discounting. The Net Present value peaks at a 457% discount rate, at which point it declines very slowly

So while I agree that the value should be NUM rather than 2.98E-9 I wonder whether your problem could be expressed another way?

Cheers

Dave

Hi Dave

I don't think there's anything unusual in the size, pattern or direction of the flows - the IRR is simply negative as pointed out in post #2.

 

[brettdj]

Hi Riichard,

I think the direction of the cashflows isn't typical, in that the "standard" (using that term broadly) use of irr is to measure returns on an initial investment. Hence my query as to whether this problem could be framed another way


Cheers

Dave